Watch: PM Modi, Amit Shah a remarkable pair in Indian politics, says India watcher Andersen

American Walter K Andersen, the author of the book on the RSS "The Brotherhood in Saffron" has been a keen South Asia watcher for decades. He has worked extensively for the US government at various levels from the days Henry Kissinger. He is in India once again witnessing the state elections and the big general elections in 2019.

He spoke exclusively to WION on the rise of the BJP & RSS, PM Modi and his relations with President Trump and other big issues connected with the ruling party.

WION: How do you view PM Modi's tenure now that his government is set to face the electorate again next year?

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Walter K Andersen: That is a complicated question because there are layers of success. India is now the fastest growing economy in the world today and that has been the status for the last four and a half years. The country has also received the largest foreign direct investment (FDI), I think it was $61 billion last year, which more than China. Also, infrastructure work has been going on but that has a delayed reaction, infrastructure work and FDI results do not show immediately.

The failure has been on the issue of jobs which has had a political impact but then no one could really do it because the number is quite high, in millions. He came into office with the expectation that he will be able to create a lot of jobs for many young people, but he has been able to help the poor... there are a large number of poor people. The health scheme is the perfect example, the gas cylinder scheme too.

WION: Also, the BJP is now in 19 states across India which seems to have fueled it.

Walter K Andersen: Yes, the Opposition wasn't able to put up candidates which captured the imagination of the people. There has been a blowback in the three states which have gone to the polls in which the BJP seems to be running neck-and-neck but they have been in power for quite a few years.

Rajasthan is an example which tends to go back and forth, so if they lose Rajasthan it won't be unusual. They have dominated Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh for quite some time, so it remains to be seen how much the anti-incumbency factor works against the BJP.

WION: As far as PM Modi the statesman is concerned, how does the West view him?

Walter K Andersen: Don't forget he could not visit the US for over a dozen years due to the Godhra riots but once it was clear he was going to be prime minister in 2014, the US ambassador at the time Nancy Powell went to visit him with flowers and there was a sense that maybe he wouldn't get a good reception but in fact he has. PM Modi has been able to turnaround his preception.

PM Modi invited Obama and they seemed to get along beautifully with each other. I understand he invited President Trump for the Republic Day celebrations but for some reason, it didn't work out but I won't be surprised if President Trump is not invited for the big event later.

WION: How do you view PM Modi's relations with President Trump?

Walter K Andersen: PM Modi worked at getting along, he did his homework on what President Trump was like, the prime minister is a very good politician. He is also a good actor, he has done it from when he was a child. If you watch him on the stage, he has a stage presence, he seems to be someone who was born for the stage.

He is also very good at private conversation, I have met him and he looks at you as if you are the most important person, unlike other prominent people who look over your shoulder. He remembers who you are and the circumstances in which you met him earlier which is very effective.

WION: And about your book "The Brotherhood In Saffron", how has that been viewed in India?

Walter K Andersen: Actually, PM Modi read it and said it is outdated, he didn't say write another one (laughs). It was of course written in 1988, at that time Congress was still the dominant party, the BJP was relatively a small party, but some things haven't changed.

The things that have changed is India's largest labour union, India's largest student group and India's largest party - the ruling party - and you can just go down the list and you can see how the RSS has penetrated in all parts of society.

WION: The rise of the RSS has been quite meteoric in the last few years.

Walter K Andersen: Yes, the growth was driven by the economic reforms of the 90s and as the Indian economy grew, urbanisation began to take place and that seems to have worked to the benefit of the Sangh including the BJP.

WION: How do you view the effect of the RSS on the party and then the country?

Walter K Andersen: Obviously, it has some influence. During the elections their cadre worked for the party. In the recent state elections, the RSS cadres went all out in Rajasthan and they used their polling network and the grassroots connect to find out how was the party faring and they got word that they have problems, so in the last few weeks they activated the cadre to attend the local meetings. In fact, the RSS is the best polling agency in India. They really go to the local level - the shakhas and they collect local information and pass it to the party.

WION: How do you think that affects the party?

Walter K Andersen: There is a common feeling that the BJP and the RSS sit down together but that is incorrect. Both are separate organizations and they have differences. Right now the big issue is the Ram Temple at Ayodhya.

WION: The view of the party and RSS it seems differs...

Walter K Andersen: Yes, the RSS and some of the affiliates like the VHP want the construction of the Ram Temple to start tomorrow but within the party, they think we need legislation and there are other views. The other big issue is on development.

The RSS has a much more older, protective view on the Indian economy. It is much less enthusiastic about FDI. The affiliates too the Mazdoor Sangh, the Swadeshi Jagran Manch were organised in the late 90s to oppose FDI and it still does.

WION: Is that good for the country?

Walter K Andersen: It certainly hasn't harmed the country, it has generated debate which one does not often see in political parties. It allows them to think. PM Modi sides with globalisation because he thinks it creates more jobs. He comes from a small enterprise background, his father ran a tea shop, so he understands you have to keep a ledger of inputs and outputs... so he understands as a young person the frustrations involved in moving up the ranks.

WION: In foreign affairs, what do you think has been PM Modi's greatest achievement?

Walter K Andersen: Ironically, I think it is getting India more involved in the international community and in relations with China. It now wants to improve its relations with India. PM Modi too wants to improve relations with China, he has been there several times. He has said some very complimentary things about China but he is a nationalist and the Chinese recognise it.

The RSS wants him to protect India's security and PM Modi has done it at Doklam, he has been able to do it and both sides declared victory which is the best thing - a win-win situation.

WION: And finally, how do you see Amit Shah and PM Modi working together?

Walter K Andersen: It is a remarkable pair. I haven't seen anything like it in Indian politics. There is an example of this in the late 19th century in Germany with Bismark who would organise things and the Emperor who was the public figure. A man like Amit Shah is all organization, he works the ground... he has no doubt built the most effective political organisation which is the BJP.

Amit Shah has worked at the booth level and has people who give feedback and analysis, so planning and execution helps the party and PM Modi and Amit Shah get along well too. They are two very self-possessed individuals, not insulted easily, a lot of people feel insulted, in that sense he is much like our President but then if you feel insulted, you should never be in politics.

I would like to have either one of them on my side in a battle, they are tough guys.

WION: But for the BJP the question is what next?

Walter K Andersen: Yes that is true, there does not seem to be a successor. It is true for Amit Shah as well. He has deputies but none that I know who is waiting to step in... the party needs both PM Modi and Amit Shah.