Brazil, India looking at expanding trade, firming up defence industry ties, says Ambassador Kenneth da Nóbrega

Brazil’s Ambassador to India Kenneth da Nóbrega has said that his country is looking to expanding trade ties with India, especially with the review of India-MERCOSUR PTA or Preferential Trade Agreement and further firming up defence industry ties. Speaking to WION’s Sidhant Sibal, Ambassador Nóbrega said, “Stock taking on how we could push forward to expand our trade preferences, agreement. I think there is political will on both sides to do that”, with inclusion of areas like agriculture, pharma. In 2024-25, bilateral trade reached USD 12.20 billion, with Indian exports to Brazil amounting to USD 6.77 billion and imports from Brazil totalling USD 5.43 billion.

The ambassador backed UNSC reforms, and his country’s commitment to the BRICS group. Brazil is the chair of the BRICS grouping and earlier this year hosted the summit. India and Brazil, both are members of the G4, a grouping that pushes for UNSC reforms and BRICS as well. Asked about US commerce secretary Howard Lutnick’s comments that India and Brazil need to be “fixed”, ambassador Nóbrega said, “It’s kind of interesting to see somebody who has a limited knowledge of our countries make such statements.”

Sidhant Sibal:How do you see India, Brazil relations?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Well, Brazil-Indian relations will soon turn eighty years old, and I venture to say that we are living at their best historical moment. A good word to describe our relations is trust, mutual trust developed and built through decades of political coordination, and this mutual trust has been now more as a fleet, providing a very solid base for the development of our economic and technological relations that are thriving as never before. before.

Sidhant Sibal:Earlier this year, we saw the Indian Prime Minister traveling to Brazil. This is a visit that saw several announcements as well. How do you plan to build on that visit?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:I think it was a quite successful visit. And if you see the joint statement that was issued. I think it testifies to what I have said. You know, taking into account that in the last two years or so, we have had an exchange of more than 120 or 130 missions, business missions between Brazil and India. Our two leaders charted the course for the next decade based on what they have seen, based on what the business interest has shown. So they have selected five areas to concentrate our efforts , to boost our relations. One is defense, agriculture, energy, DPIs and health. They are now our roadmap.

Sidhant Sibal:But are we expecting visits from Brazil to India?
Kenneth da Nóbrega:Well, if everything goes according to plan, President Lula will come to India for a state visit early next year and and now we are in the process of preparing that visit. So the day after tomorrow, the Brazilian NSA is coming to India, followed by a meeting at the Secretary of State level of our trade monitoring mechanism, and then probably other federal ministers from Brazil coming, still not confirmed. So I don't want to mention what ministers are coming, but I think they are coming.

Sidhant Sibal:India and Brazil are two large global south countries representing a large portion of the global population. How can both of them work together to deal with major challenges? One, of course, is the issue of trade as well, in terms of increasing their trade. You talked about the trade monitoring mechanism.

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Yes, not only trade. The mechanism is called trade monitoring mechanism, but it goes beyond that. It's a mechanism that goes through the stock of the whole bilateral economic relations, so includes trade, investment and technological cooperation.

Sidhant Sibal:In terms of trade, any plans for the review of the preferential trade agreement between India and the Mercosur trading region.

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Yes, yes, we are working on that. We are ready to announce that, but we are working on, devising a plan, stock taking on how we could push forward to expand our trade preferences, agreement. I think there is political will on both sides to do that. So I’m confident that this will. Expanding the tariff lines, in terms of goods and services, areas like agriculture, pharma.

Sidhant Sibal: Both the countries essentially are part of major groupings like the BRICS. You are the current chair of the BRICS. India will be the next chair of the BRICS. So what kind of coordination has been happening?
Kenneth da Nóbrega:Well, this coordination between Brazil and India in the international forum has been going on for more than almost eight years, and it has to do with the idea of pushing forward the interests of the global south and pushing for the reform of global governance institutions, basically the UN.

Sidhant Sibal:But are you hopeful of UN reforms?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Well, this is a long term gain. Yeah, we are not expecting short term gains, but this is a matter of setting a long term course. Because it's about making the United Nations more functional and more inclusive, more legitimate. So it’s a permanent goal.

Sidhant Sibal:In terms of the BRICS expansion as well. But will BRICS be able to continue with its commitments, or its commitments will get diluted as the group becomes bigger

Kenneth da Nóbrega:First of all, I think the mere fact that a number of countries wants to to be members of BRICS says a lot about how the United Nations bodies are blocked in terms of negotiations and political will to make progress based on consensus. Expanded BRICS is a challenge in the sense that we have to work more to build consensus, from 5 to 10. But I think that BRICS, I worked as a BRICS Sherpa for some years, and I think the BRICS DNA has been from the start, the idea that acknowledgement of diversity and focusing on what the countries have in common, not on their differences. And this explains why BRICS has achieved some very tangible results, BRICS bank.

Sidhant Sibal:Plan for an Agriculture bank?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:I wouldn’t say a bank of agriculture, but the idea is that BRICS members, among the BRICS members, have big among the largest agricultural producers in the world, India, Brazil, China. So the idea is how these countries can coordinate in terms of creating resilience to climate change, resilience to extreme weather events, and also a measure of predictability to agriculture trade, because business needs predictability to thrive.

Sidhant Sibal:World is facing a lot of policy changes, to put it mildly. In many ways, tariffs are one thing that has been a concern for India and Brazil. How is it a challenge, or perhaps an opportunity as well?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Well, we live in times when, when our solid, multilateral rules are no longer efficient. Need to find rules of engagement, as you have mentioned, and this can be built among trusted friends, trusted partners. And so India and Brazil, they are, have been coordinating, also on the economic front, to sail through these uncharted waters. So we have already been seeing, as I have mentioned at the outset, the intensification of business interests from both sides.I would say that this new geopolitical environment has made us more proactive in looking for complementarities.

Sidhant Sibal:We saw the comments by the US Commerce Secretary, Mr. Lucknick, who said that India and Brazil need to be fixed. What’s the view like in Brazil?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Well, we wonder what he meant by this observation. I don't know if it's just a slogan, a sentence to be published on X but anyway, I think that we know better. I think because we live in our countries and we have solid think tanks and state institutions to figure out what needs to be improved in our economic system,it's kind of interesting to see somebody who has a limited knowledge of our countries make such statements.

Sidhant Sibal:President of Brazil's upcoming India visit, I know it's too early to talk about what is being talked about, or it's still, I think, four or five months, but what kind of conversations can one expect?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:I think that our leaders as they did back in July, I think they will compare normal notes and their perceptions regarding the evolving geopolitical and geoeconomic landscape, and they will take one more stock of how our technological and economic relations are faring. I've been in India as ambassador of Brazil to India for the last two years, a little more than two years now, and I have already seen tangible results in terms of investment and technological agreements being hammered out.

Sidhant Sibal:Are you looking to buy defense equipment from India? Any plans like that? Or has India offered you?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:Yes, of course, when you talk about trading defence, we need to be careful when mentioning details, as you know. But just to tell you, among the 130 plus missions we actually exchanged in the last two years, we had a sizable portion of these missions were defense missions and we see the possibility, really, of our interest in industrial bases in connection, in terms of joint ventures. And, yes, there are some defense products from India that are being carefully examined by the Brazilian government to be acquired, and also India is looking at some interesting Brazilian defense products. So I don't want to go into details when it comes to defense, but yes, we have a good outlook in that area.

Sidhant Sibal:Counter Terrorism. India has been a victim of cross border terrorism. We saw the terror attack by Pakistan train terrorists. We also saw President Lula condemning that as well during the Prime Minister's visit earlier this year. So essentially, what's your view about the scourge of terrorism?

Kenneth da Nóbrega:President Lula called honorable Prime Minister Modi after the Pahalgam attacks, to convey an unmistakable support for India, and of course, saying that there is not any justification whatsoever of these horrendous attacks. And it's true that we are blessed in our region in terms that we don't have the threat of terrorism and terrorist attacks in our region, but we have always supported India in multilateral forum when it comes to condemning terrorism myself when I was a negotiated within BRICS statements on terrorism in various occasions, and Brazil always stood by the side of India.