Exclusive | US Diplomat Toloui praises Indian G20 presidency, regrets China-Russia stance

Ramin Toloui, Assistant Secretary for the Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs at the USDepartment of State has praised the Indian presidency of the G20 for setting an "ambitious agenda" and reaching a consensus on critical challenges in health security and food security, among other areas at the G20 Foreign ministers meet. However, he expressed regret over China and Russia's refusal to join the G20 consensus.

Speaking to WION's diplomatic correspondent Sidhant Sibal, he said, "it was really regrettable that China and Russia did not join the G20 consensus on two paragraphs that all G20 members had embraced only three months ago in the Bali leader's declaration of the G20. And those two paragraphs were condemning the impact that the war in Ukraine was having on the global economy on global food security on energy security". Despite this divide, Toloui emphasised the importance of finding ways to work together to address pressing global issues, including those affecting emerging markets and developing countries. He also spoke on the Sri Lanka Economic Crisis, and Quad among other issues.

WION: We are coming fresh out of the G20 foreign ministers' meet. How do you make of the Indian Presidency, the key focus areas and how do the Americans plan to strengthen that?
Ramin Toloui: The Indian presidency of the G20 has really gotten off to an excellent start. There was the finance ministers and central bank governors meeting several days ago and this was the ministerial for the foreign ministers.The Indian presidency set out a very ambitious agenda for our foreign ministers meeting and in fact set us the goal of producing a summary and outcomes document for the foreign ministers for the first time. And through our discussions this week, we're able to reach an agreement among the entire group of G20 on issues to address very important challenges in health security, food security and other critical challenges facing the global economy.

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WION: While Chair and outcome statements have been issued, there was an absence of the joint statement.Do you see the absence of a joint statement as somethingworrisome because of the ongoing conflict that is dominating? Is this why we saw this divide between the 18 and the rest two, i.e.,Russia and China?
Ramin Toloui: Well, we thought it was really regrettable that China and Russia did not join the G20 consensus on two paragraphs that all the other members had embraced only three months ago in the Bali leader's declaration of the G20. And those two paragraphs were condemning the impact that the war in Ukraine was having on the global economy global food security on energy security, and it called for actions to uphold the system of international law, including the principles of the UN Charter, principles of humanitarian law, including protecting civilians and critical infrastructure. And we really regret that China and Russia were unwilling to join the rest of the G20 in upholding these principles and recognising the negative impact that the war on Ukraine was having on the global economy.

Just a week ago, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution with 141 votes that called for an end to this war on the principles and bases of the UN Charter and condemned the attacks against civilians and civilian infrastructure. And so we're sorry to say that Russia and China are not part of this very strong global consensus on the negative impacts of the war. That being said, I commend the Indian presidency in formulating a consensus among the entire 20 on an important agenda for the rest of the world, which is addressing issues of public health, food and energy security, effective cooperation against narcotics trafficking, and so it's important that the G20 continue to find areas to cooperate that are important to the welfare of the population of the world.

WION: Do you see theRussia and Ukraine conflict, dominating or paralysing the working of the G20 grouping? Is this affecting the voice of the global south,causing it to not beingheardin the grouping because of this divide within the grouping?
Ramin Toloui: Well, I think that countries in the emerging markets and developing world have made clear that it's essential that we come together to address these problems that I've just enumerated, whether it's food and energy, security, the impacts of climate change, addressing humanitarian relief, in particular, in disaster areas, these problems are not going away. And in fact, many of these problems have gotten worse because of Russia's aggression against Ukraine.

So I think that it's important that we continue to find ways to work in the G20, to address these collectively. And again, I commend the Indian presidency for keeping the focus on moving forward on these areas so that we can come together. Ambassador Abhay Thakur at the Ministry of External Affairs very ably led the preparations for this meeting and helped bring theG20 consensus on addressing these important issues. And our partners in the emerging markets and the developing countries want that, they expect, they legitimately expect that and we need to continue to come together to address these important problems.

WION: We're meeting at a time when the court foreign ministers had their first meetingin Delhi, where do you see the future of this grouping amid a veryaggressive China?
Ramin Toloui: Well, the statement, I should say, the chairs summary and the outcomes document really pointed the way ahead on some areas where we need to continue to build on the G20 consensus this year. And so, I think that we're going to continue to work toward the leaders' meeting in September to further elaborate our cooperation in the areas I've described.

Let me give one example that's very important to the United States and it's becoming increasingly important around the world, which is the increasing cooperation on counter-narcotics. Right now, the United States is experiencing very significant problems with synthetic drugs like fentanyl. Drug overdoses have become the largest killer of Americans between the ages of 19 and 49. What we're seeing around the world is that the United States unfortunately is at the front end of a wave of challenges with synthetic drugs, whether its Ketamine in East Asia, Captagon in the Middle East, or Methamphetamine, the names are different, but the scourge is a challenge that all that we think the global community is increasingly facing. In this Foreign Ministers' meet this issue was put on the agenda of the G20 for the first time and we look forward to carrying that work on the under the Indian presidency.

WION: While foreign ministers met at the G20, the QUAD foreign ministers also converged. Where do you see the future of quad going forward to?
Ramin Toloui: The quad is very important because it shows how a subset of democracies in the world can also make progress on important issues. The QUAD has been a very important form of collaboration in addressing COVID-19, addressing climate change, and humanitarian,disaster relief.

During the meeting that happened earlier today,there was a sessionon the Raisina dialogue among the four foreign ministers demonstrating that the quad also is a very effective forum for deepening the cooperation in these areas.

WION: India has a close relationship with Russia. How do you see this relationship going forward in terms of global geopolitics and will there be any sanctions ever on New Delhi given that it has a strong defence relationship with Russia or because it imports energy from Russia?
Ramin Toloui: Prime Minister Modi has said today's era is not an era of war and Foreign Minister Dr Jaishankar has talked about India, serving as a bridge and trying to use its influence with Russia to end this conflict. We strongly support both of these sentiments because Russia's aggression on Ukraine has beena tragedy for the people of Ukraine.Because of this deliberate war on civilians, and the war crimes that Russia has committed inside Ukraine, it has been a tragedy for people all around the world.

People thousands of miles away are suffering increased food insecurity, and energy insecurity because of this war, and so it's important for all countries in the global system to use their influence, to try to bring an end to this war to alleviate not only the suffering in the war zone but the suffering of people around the world which is the result of Russia's aggression.

WION:On the sanctions aspect; if New Delhi gets S400 from Russia several batches of whichhave already arrived. Will there be sanctions on India?
Ramin Toloui: While I don't want to talk about any specific sanctions of any kind, I can say that one of the topics of discussion you mentioned was India's relationship with Russia, one of the topics of discussion when Secretary Blinken met with Minister Jaishankar was increasing the technological and defence cooperation between the United States and India.

WION: On the technological cooperation we saw the meeting happening on critical technologiescan you elaborate on that? Are we looking at some kind of major outcomes or deals perhaps in terms of that sector?
Ramin Toloui: Well, I don't want to comment on specifics. I wouldjust say that's a very important area of work. It isongoing work and we're continuing to deepen our cooperation in this area.

WION: India has been talking about how it is the voice of the global south. How do you see these comments?
Ramin Toloui: Well, I think that India's G20 presidency really offers an excellent opportunity to bring together the global community around these common challenges. And I think that the experiences that we've had with the first couple of major meetings under India's G 20 presidency, the finance ministers and central bank governors several days ago, the foreign ministers meeting just shows the potential under the Indian presidency to really deliver concrete results and deepen cooperation in a variety of areas that are really important to people around the world.

WION: Debt crisis is something that has been the key focus area as we saw at the finance ministers' meeting. What's your view on the ongoing global debt crisis? And, of course, specifically, if you talk about the Indian subcontinent, there are countries like Sri Lanka that have been majorly impacted and how much would you say that China is responsible for that?
Ramin Toloui: Well, this issue of debt is incredibly important right now. There were already vulnerabilities preceding it, but the COVID pandemic has made all of these debt challenges much, much worse. It's very important that the creditor countries cooperate effectively in order to alleviate these debt problems and find solutions and ways forward.

You asked about Sri Lanka in particular, India has shown real leadership inoffering assurances or what is called financing assurances that will be necessary in order for Sri Lankan to launch its IMF program.The Paris Club of which the United States is a part has also offered those financing assurances that are basically a way of saying that we are pledging that we're going to provide debt relief that will help get Sri Lanka on a sustainable course. Unfortunately, China hasn't provided those assurances yet, and we very much hope that they will because China is a major creditor of Sri Lanka, and it's very important that all major creditors come together to help the nation and other countries that are suffering from debt distress to find a way out andstabilise the economic situation and lay the groundwork for again a return to rising living standards in these countries.

WION: Plans for countries taking haircut when it comes to G20, what is your view?
Ramin Toloui: Well, different countries are going to require different things. One commitment that countries that offer these financial assurances make is that they will provide debt relief in line with the calculations of the IMF. So the IMF does something prepares something called a debt sustainability analysis, which examines the future expected repayments on debt relative to the country's capacity to repay and when a country like India or the Paris Club offers financing assurances, it's a commitment to provide debt relief, such that that trajectory of repayments will be sustainable with the country's capacity over time.

So, it's very important that when a country is willing to undertake difficult economic reforms and do its part to put its economy back on the right track, the creditor of countries also be willing to provide the debt relief that's compatible with making those economic plans successful and India has done this in the case of Sri Lanka, the Paris Club has and we look forward to China also joining in on that

WION: What has been the US doing when it comes to supporting Sri Lanka amid theeconomic crisis it is going through?
Ramin Toloui: Well, the key most important at the beginning is to make sure that the humanitarian needs are met when this crisis really intensified last year and now, we've been very supportiveof Sri Lanka trying to get an IMF program launched. The enabling condition for that program to be launched is really the agreement among all the creditors to provide Sri Lanka with unnecessary debt relief. And so, we hope that we're close to this time when China would join India and the Paris Club in offering these assurances so that we can launch an IMF program to help Sri Lanka.

WION:We have seen Pakistan going through a terrible economic crisis. What's your view on that? How Americans can support it? And how much do you blame China for that?
Ramin Toloui: Well, there are many challenges right now in Pakistan. And again, humanitarian challenges have been very significant. And so, the United States has played a major role in trying to provide humanitarian assistance related to the floods and other displacements that have affected Pakistan.

There is also going to be the need to try to provide economic support, including international economics, andsupport to stabilise that situation. We're very engaged in those discussions. And we hope to play a supporting role again, as is the case when countries are going through these kinds of crises, to get the economic policies in the country in the right place, supported appropriately by financial assistance from the outside. And so, we look forward to joining with other countries, the institutions like the IMF, to provide that support.