Made-in-India defence equipment are of interest to us: Armenian Foreign Minister Ararat Mirzoyan

Armenia's Foreign Minister Ararat Mirzoyan has said that made-in- India defence equipment are of interest to his country with key focus on reforming his country's defence sector, something that is not against "any third country".

Armenia and India have significantly deepened their defence cooperation in recent years, with India emerging as a key supplier of military equipment to Armenia. The country in the South Caucasus has procured Pinaka Multi-Barrel Rocket Launchers, becoming the first international customer of India's indigenously developed defence assets. 

Speaking to WION's Sidhant Sibal, he said, "so we are in the middle of the process of reforming our defense sector, reforming our army, modernizing our army, and here the Indian experience is some specific areas, as well as the equipment made in India, are of interest to us", but pointed that procurement from India is for "reforming the Armenian defence system, and there is no intention to use these systems against any other third party".

His comments come amid peace negotiations with neighbouring Azerbaijan. 

The foreign minister, who held talks with India's External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar on Monday (Mar 10) hoped to get more Indian students in his country and establish direct flight connectivity between Yerevan and Delhi.

He said, "Armenia is launching a large-scale project, the establishment of an academic city, where we want not only to combine several Armenian universities and respective institutions... I believe that this will attract more students from India".

Approximately 3,000 Indian students are in the country, studying medicine, particularly at the Yerevan State Medical University. There has been a significant increase in the number of Indian workers in Armenia in recent months.

During the interview the minister restated his country's position on Jammu and Kashmir, stating, "we support India's position and perception here on the issue of Jammu Kashmir, and we would only welcome any positive and peaceful progress here".

WION: How do you see India-Armenia relationship?
Ararat Mirzoyan: Speaking about the relations between Armenia and India, one should remember that these relations, relations between the peoples of India and Armenia, have a history of several centuries. I remember in the 18th century there was a vibrant Armenian community in India, a community of intellectuals, of traders, who were both helping for global positioning of India in terms of trade and economy, but also they had a huge contribution into cultural prosperity, both in Armenia and India. It is interesting to note that, for instance, the first ever Armenian attempt to have a constitutional, written constitution of the future Armenian Republic was made in India. It was written in India. Also the first-ever Armenian published periodical was published in India in Madras, nowadays, Chennai. So coming back to modern day history, India was among the first states recognizing the independence of the Republic of Armenia back in 1991 and interestingly, four years later, we succeeded to sign a treaty about friendship and cooperation between our two states. Quite a serious document. And since then, the political dialogue, but also the interaction in various fields, has been developing, and we have made significant upgrades of relations. We have very, very intense mutual political visits, political consultations between our foreign affairs ministries, including the ministers. We constantly meet under intergovernmental commission on cooperation, where we mark the areas and specific steps that we can bilaterally implement. So if you ask how I would describe the relations, these are very close and friendly relations which are being developed. 

WION: Let me just talk about the meeting you had here in Delhi. We saw the meeting between you and the Indian External Affairs Minister, Dr S Jaishankar. What were the key outcomes of the conversations.
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, first of all, we had the opportunity to evaluate what already has been done, how the previous agreements that we have had been implemented, but also to talk about the future possible and potential projects and areas of cooperation. 

WION: How do you see the defence cooperation, in past few years, you have imported equipment from India
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, obviously, defence is one of the directions, one of the areas where we have very close cooperation with India. And I suppose this cooperation will continuously be deepened. But what I would like to mention is that this cooperation, and specifically trade of some specific equipment made in India by Armenia, is not intended to be used, however, in any other sense, is not against any other third party. You are probably aware that Armenia has a peace agenda. We are engaged in peace negotiations with our eastern neighbour. But also, in general, we very much are focused on establishing peace and stability and normalising our relations with our neighbors. So, we are in the middle of the process of reforming our defense sector, reforming our army, modernising our army, and here the Indan experience is some specific areas, as well as the equipment made in India, are of interest to us. But again, this is for reforming the Armenian defence system, and there is no intention to use these systems against any other third party.

WION: I was coming to that point, we have seen comments coming from Azerbaijan in the aftermath of the reports coming that you have imported the India made defence assets, especially Pinaka. So if you can perhaps talk about the reaction coming from Azerbaijan
Ararat Mirzoyan: I basically already reflected on this topic. And Armenia's intention is only modernising its own defence capabilities, modernising the defence system as a whole. And here the equipment brought not only from India, the intention of this is being part of a better army with better defensive capabilities. Armenia does not have any intention of aggression against any third country. 

WION: How do you plan to use the Chabahar port for wider connectivity?
Ararat Mirzoyan: Like any other country in the world, Armenia is doing its best to have or promote its logistical routes, to become part of global transit routes. And here, exploring new opportunities is very important for Armenia. Moreover, we have come up with our own initiative, the crossroads of peace, which basically supports transport to transit infrastructure, in the South Caucasus but also the initiative goes beyond the South Caucasus, especially having in mind that if implemented, this project will have positive influence, not only on the three countries of South Caucasus. So we are interested in exploring new transit routes, including ports, railways, electricity cables, internet cables, etc. To implement this, of course, first of all focus on the negotiations with our neighbours. I mean, Azerbaijan, we believe a mutually beneficial proposal for both countries, but also we continue on negotiations about opening our borders and re-launching our railway infrastructure, connecting Armenia with Turkey. So as part of the crossroads of peace, we can consider not only the north-south direction, but also west to east. Again, if implemented, this project is going to be beneficial for many players in the world.

WION: If you talk about economic cooperation and the role of the Chabahar port?
Ararat Mirzoyan: If you look at the economic aspect of our relations. Indeed, I would agree that there is a huge untapped potential here. Our cooperation in other sectors is much ahead, and we should implement and make additional efforts also to ensure that the economic potential and trade potential is being realized more properly. And here again, we should speak about the logistics, the geographical distance, but we also know that there is still homework to be done. For instance, I remember during my first visit to India back in 2022, I brought a large group of Armenian businessmen who were interested in making business with their Indian counterparts. Today, with Minister Jaishankar, we had the opportunity to discuss the necessity or an opportunity of bringing a group of Indian businessmen to Armenia. And I believe this should be a process, an exercise that should be repeated from time to time, to renew or to help the businessmen to establish new contacts. But also we can understand, we can agree that there are areas where the geographical distance does not play that big role. For instance, information technologies, health technologies, artificial intelligence, in which both Armenia and I'm sure, and I see that India is very much interested, but not only interested, we both have huge capacities and capabilities here. We have experts. We have the potential. So we can collaborate here as well. And if we dig further, we can obviously, certainly find new areas where we can help to increase the numbers. For instance, I can bring another example, the direct flights between us and there are certain Armenian carriers who are interested in opening and establishing direct flights. And I know that there was a conversation among Indian carriers as well. And if there is a direct flight, we understand that this will help, not only to improve, people to people contacts, not only to improve cultural ties, but this is also tourism, which is a sector of economy. 

WION: How are you pitching Armenia as a tourist destination and a destination for Indian students?
Ararat Mirzoyan: This is a very good example, by the way. We have had Indian students who study mainly in medicine, but it's not restricted only to medicine. It's already more than a decade, a couple of decades, but we see that the interest is growing, and we are very much interested in getting the students from India. But also, I assure you that in India as well, there are universities and there are specialties which students from Armenia can be interested in. So most probably, we should multiply our efforts in this area. But I would like to add another layer to this conversation. Armenia is launching a large-scale project, the establishment of an academic city, where we want not only to combine several Armenian universities and respective institutions, but also to invite some new reputable institutions to play a role. And I believe that this will attract more students from India. But if we continue speaking about some influx, you mentioned students, I would like to add another group, influx coming from India to Armenia. There is another area where during the recent couple of years, we have noticed some changes. We see that there is some labor migration from India to Armenia. We haven't had this experience in years. 

WION: Are you pointing to illegal migration?
Ararat Mirzoyan: No, legal migration. We see that there is a demand in Armenia, but also this is an area which should be regulated. And we had the opportunity to exchange views on this with Minister Jaishankar.

WION: Are you basically saying that you want more Indians to come to Armenia, the skilled Indians to help your economy?
Ararat Mirzoyan: I will put it in another way. We are okay with involving the labour force from India, but this should be to an extent which can be okay for the Armenian economy and the workforce in Armenia as well. So there is a demand. But we should regulate. The aim of regulation is not only to regulate the amount of the workforce which can be transferred from country to country, but also to make sure that all the rights of the labor migrants are secured. 

WION: How do you see India supporting Armenia when you were facing a lot of issues with your neighbors, especially Azerbaijan? So how would you see India's support and India's role in the South Caucasus?
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, when we speak about cooperation between Armenia and India on the international domain, I would say that here we have very close cooperation. We support each other's candidacies. We often, and very frequently support each other's initiative on various international platforms. As for the normalization process between Armenia and Azerbaijan, there, I should say that we are very close to finalization of the draft of peace agreement between the two countries, and if we succeed to finalize the drafting and then sign the peace treaty, that would be one of the strongest pillars of the peace and stability in South Caucasus. It complements some other negotiations and agreements that we already had with Azerbaijan, for instance we signed and ratified regulation of the works of border commissions working on the delimitation of the border between two states. I already had the opportunity to mention the proposal regarding the unlocking of transport infrastructure in the region, and also I can add the proposal regarding the joint mutual arms control and verification mechanisms. So all these tools can help us to establish lasting peace in our region. All the countries that can have a positive role welcoming the constructive steps of the two parties, two countries are only very welcome in our region. On the other hand, of course, I should also note that the agreements that we had already accomplished with Azerbaijan, they have been accomplished through bilateral, direct negotiations, and yeah, hopefully we will get there soon. 

WION: Let's come to the Indian subcontinent. Now, in the Indian subcontinent, one of the biggest worries for India has been the cross-border terrorism coming from Pakistan. What do you have to say about that? Even as Pakistan continues to occupy an area, Pakistan occupied Kashmir. So, what is your stance? If you can perhaps talk about it. 
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, Armenia's position is very well known, and over the years, we support India's position and perception here on the issue of Jammu Kashmir, and we would only welcome any positive and peaceful progress here.

WION: But on the issue of cross-border terrorism issue, what do you have to say on that? 
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, Armenia condemns terrorism in all its forms and in all the corners of our planet, and we ourselves have very sad experience of the involvement of mercenary terrorist fighters in the conflicts in our region. So as I said, we condemn terrorists, and also we see that terrorists can have even worse influence over the regional processes if supported and in cooperation with some states.

WION: You mentioned mercenary terrorists. Can you perhaps elaborate on that bit? 
Ararat Mirzoyan: I already said that we had a bad experience of seeing mercenary terrorist fighters involved in the conflicts in our region.

WION: Calling for reforms of the United Nations Security Council. What's your sense like? Do you support India's bid for reformed UNSC and also BRICS, that has been an emerging grouping. You have been an observer member of several of those meetings. What's your assessment about the BRICS ? Would you like to be a member of the  BRICS ? Or how do you see this grouping as..
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well we see these days, unfortunately, all the mechanisms, existing in UN structure, and also the others, even existing, I mean, beyond the UN structures are not sufficient and are not guaranteeing us and helping us to prevent or manage or stop the conflicts going on here and there, on the Earth. So it is becoming more and more obvious that most probably the United Nations system needs some reforms. And we know the attitude and approach of India, and we support this.

WION: And BRICS?
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, we have participated in BRICS meetings, as well as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. You ask for BRICS and we will remain interested in being an observer in this organization, and seeing what this cooperation, this format, can bring to our region as well.

WION: Perhaps your views about your normalisation of relationship with Türkiye, if you can perhaps talk about it and relationship with Iran, which is quite good, but generally for our viewers, if you can give a broader picture of the relationship with Iran, because for India as well, Iran is a close neighbour. 
Ararat Mirzoyan: Well, Armenia has four neighbours. The eastern neighbour is Azerbaijan with whom we are trying to establish peace and inter-state relations, closing the page of enmity in the region. Our Western neighbour is Türkiye, with whom Armenia's borders have been closed for more than three decades. Now we have quite a dynamic dialogue with Turkey, and this dialogue is aimed at establishing diplomatic relations between us and Türkiye and also opening the borders between two countries. So far, we have succeeded in several small but still tangible steps, some of the agreements have not been implemented like we have already agreed that the border should be open first for third country nationals and also Armenian and Turkish nationals, diplomatic passport holders. So this one, the latter has not been implemented yet, but we continue our dialogue and again, if the relations are fully normalised, that would be very beneficial, not only for the two countries, but several other players in the region and beyond the region. As for the other two neighbors, Georgia and Iran, we have had very good relations with these two countries for quite a long time, and we are focused on deepening these ties. And we understand you asked specifically about Iran, because geographically, when we look at India and Armenia, we have the intention to deepen the ties. Of course, we should also pay attention to the countries which are between us. We are very much interested in deepening our cooperation, including in a trilateral format which you mentioned.

WION: How do you assess the global situation? Currently, there are two conflicts which are underway, looking at a kind of a ceasefire, we have the Trump administration as well. In Ukraine, it looks like we could have peace very soon. Same goes for West Asia. So what is the Armenian foreign policy all about these big issues? 
Ararat Mirzoyan: As you can conclude from everything which I have said before this question, Armenia is very much focused on peace building. Of course, peace building, first of all, for Armenia, for South Caucasus, for our neighbours. But also we think that peace is the only solution for all the other countries in the world as well. And here I would like to separate and focus on two separate dimensions. First of all, the humanitarian dimension. I mean the suffering of human beings, be it in Armenia, be it in Ukraine, be it in Syria, it is unacceptable. Those violations of human rights anywhere in the world are unacceptable. We live in the 21st century, and unfortunately, we continuously see how people are subjected to massacres, for instance, or how families see the deaths of their family members because of conflicts, Secondly, you know, for Armenia, for the interests of Armenia, we are very much interested in peace in Ukraine, in Syria and Middle East. Peace is the only way which can allow nations to continue cooperation, to deepen their collaboration, to trade with each other and to benefit from each other.