Exclusive: India is a friend, can play constructive role, says Palestinian PM Mohammad Shtayyeh

The Israel-Hamas war is still raging and efforts are on to find a solution to this complex problem. Amid all this, Palestinian PMMohammad Shtayyeh spoke exclusively with WION's Principal Diplomatic Correspondent Sidhant Sibal.

Calling Indiaa "close friend", PMMohammad Shtayyeh said, "India is welcometo play a constructive role" amid the ongoing conflict in Gaza.

"We know that India has been of good support to Palestine, whether through certain infrastructure projects or politically or through other means.But most important is that the people of India have been always in full support of Palestine and Palestine is very dear to the hearts of Indian people," he said during the interaction.

The PM detailed the ongoing situation in Gaza, pointing out that, out of '25,000 Palestinians who have been killed, 70% are women and children. Sixty-two thousandPalestinians are injured, and 1.7 million Palestinians have been forced out of their homes.'

PM Mohammad Shtayyeh said, "India has been helping us here. Besides humanitarian aid to Gaza, there area number ofinitiativestaken by the Indian government, Prime Minister Modi and his government."

Since the conflict started, India has extended aid to Palestine, delivering 70 tonnes of humanitarian assistance. Thisincludes16.5 tonnes of vital medicine and medical supplies in two instalments. Additionally, New Delhi has contributed USD 5 million. In December,USD 2.5 million was disbursed to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).

Sidhant Sibal: If you can detail what is the current situation in the Gaza Strip...

Mohammad Shtayyeh: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. India is very dear to Palestine and our historical relationship has gone back to the days of Yasser Arafat and Indira Gandhi and all that has followed.Also, with Prime Minister Modi and our president andmyself, we are fully engaged and India has been aclose friend for Palestine all the time. Anotherimportant issue, I'm happy to address your audience, Mr Sibbal. The situation in Gaza is extremely, extremely catastrophic. This is a situation inGaza which is a tiny area of364 kilometers, with 2.3 million people. The most densely populated part ofthe world. Gaza strip has been under attack since October 7th and also as a reaction to the Hamas attack on Israel. The situation is as follows. Until yesterday, we had 25,000 Palestinians who were killed.Seventy per centof them are women and children. Sixty-two thousandPalestinians are injured, and 1.7 million Palestinians have been forced out of their homes. Two hundred and n 81 thousandhousing units have either partially or fullydestroyed.

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Also, the Israeli minister of energy has switched off the water andelectricity supply.Gaza is under siege. Food that is entering through the UN system is only 6% to 8% of what is needed. And most important is that the whole region lacks medicines. Twenty-sevenout of 35 hospitals are out of service. Some of them have been fully destroyed. Others donot have any fuel to operate, and the situation is extremely catastrophic. On October 7, the temperature in Gaza was 32 degrees centigrade. And today, it's raining.It is very cold. People were in t-shirts and now they are really suffering in the cold of the Mediterranean and also under the rain, living intents which do not really protect them. Shelter is not available for most of the people who have been forced out of their homes from north Gaza and they are now all centred around the Rafah area on the borders with Egypt, which has only one entry point forinternational aid, theRafah crossing.That'sthe border between Palestine, Gaza and Egypt, and Israel is in full control of this area now.

There are five entry points to Gaza that Israel is blocking. International aid has been extremely slow and people are dying because of hunger. People are dying because of lack of medicine, lack of water, lack of food, and lack of shelter so those who might have not been killed by Israeli bombardment are facing death anyway.

Very important for your audience...here in the West Bank, the Israeli army has created 700 checkpoints.Also in this region, 641 Palestinians have been killed, some of them byJewish settlers.You know, since 1967, Israel has planted 285 Jewish settlements with 755,000 Jewish settlers who have been living illegally on an illegally expropriated Syrian territory and Palestinian land that wasprivately owned by people. Andin the West Bank,the army is encouraging people into the refugee camps.

There are also attacks on Al Aqsa Mosque, as well as the humiliation ofChristian pilgrimage sites thatare here in Jerusalem. So my dear friend Sibal, the situation in all Palestinian territory is extremely catastrophic. It is not we who are occupying Israel, it is Israel that is occupying our land and all Palestinians have been fighting for is a day of freedom, a dayof independence, and a day onwhich Palestinians would live side by side with the Israeliswithone state for the Palestinians on the borders of 1967 with Jerusalem as its capital.This is the area that Israel occupied in 1967.

Sidhant Sibal: You've detailed the current situation in Gaza. But are you hopeful that this situation will improve? Are you positive about it or do you think that 2024 will see a prolongationoflast year's situation?

Mohammad Shtayyeh: Look, the Prime Minister of Israel MrNetanyahu, what he caresabout is his personal survival. And his tactic is that he wants to prolong the war as long as he can so that he can stay in power.

So my prediction is that, as the Israelis have been saying also, this war will continue until the middle of the year, and then some security arrangements will be made later. So if anyone wants to predict where things are heading, obviously 2024 is going to not be the year ofpeace.Even though everybody is pushing fortwo states, the Israelis are not partners in this peace process. Israel now has not achieved anyof the goals that it declared.

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And only thing they have achievedis a total destruction of the region. And as I mentioned, 25,000 Palestinians have beenkilled, 62000 injured and 281,000 Palestinian housing units destroyed. So they have not achieved the goals they haddeclared they wanted to achieve. Therefore, my prediction is that the war will continue and maybe Israel will widen thewar in order for Netanyahu to continue surviving as a prime minister.

Sidhant Sibal: So we all know about the ongoing problem, the issues which started last year, it is something that is decades old as well. But what is the solutionin your view? Are we looking at some kind of a ceasefire?Because this ongoing situation is difficult. It cannot continue like this. There is a near consensus globally, at least on this issue. So, what kind of solution are we looking at?And do you think that a ceasefire is something that can be talked about? Are you looking at that?

Mohammad Shtayyeh: My dear friend, I don't have to remind the Indian audience that the Indian people have thrown offthe British colonisation and British occupation of India. So, all that Palestinians are looking for, and fighting for is one thing, independence. All we want is to live in our own state like any other nation in the world.And the international community, including India, has been calling for a two-state solution. This means a state for the Palestinians. There is only one state that does exist, which is the state of Israel, it's already there.

And so, what is needed now is the recognition of the State of Palestine and the end of the Israeli occupation of the state of Palestine. Maybe a lot of people don't know that Palestine is under direct military occupation. Palestinians are not occupying Israel. It's the Israelis who are occupying Palestinian territory and therefore all the solution that we want is one thing, the end of the occupation, and the right of self-determination to the Palestinian people.Palestinians have the right to live in a sovereign, independent contiguous state of Palestine, and that's only 22% of what used to be called Palestine before the creation of the State of Israel in 1948.

So, Palestinians have made a huge compromise by accepting22% of what used to be Palestine in 1940. So, this is what we are fighting for.President Biden is in full support of the idea of two states.European leaders, India, Pakistan, Asia, China, Japan, Arab countries, you have international consensus on all these things.The countries have been calling for two states for years.

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Now it's the moment that we implementthe two-state solution,that we put Israel under sanctions for itto accept a two-state solution, to accept ending colonisation of Palestinian territory and ending its humiliation ofthe Palestinian people,ending the genocidethat Israel is committing. You know, my dear friend, Sibal, now South Africa has taken Israel to the International Court of Justice, where Israeli standing accused of committing atrocities and genocide against Palestinian people.Twenty-five thousandPalestinians have been killed in 100 days. That'sa real massacre ofpeople. And as I said 70% of them are children and women.

Sidhant Sibal: So what kind of area domination doesIsrael have in mind inGaza according to you? You have already talked about the ongoing situation in Gaza, but specifically, if you can talk about this...

Mohammad Shtayyeh: Israeli army is now occupying nearly most of Gaza except for one region, the Rafah area. So the Israeli army is there and as I told you, now Israel is trying to achieve quite several issues.One, for the last 100 days, pushing Palestinians towards the Egyptian border to force Palestinians out of Gaza.Gazais a very small Palestinian territory with 2.3 million people.

Israel wants quite a number of them out of Gaza into Egyptian territory. We and Egypt have been calling for the international community forpressure on Israel tonot force the transfer of our people. The second important issue is that ofIsrael blocking all entry points.We are pushing Israel to allow international aid to enter. The third issue is that Israel now is thinking of annexing certain parts of this little tiny geography to create what they call a buffer zone.When or if Israelcreatesthese buffer zones, it would mean the shrinkage of the whole geography of Gaza and a number of people will be forced out.

So we are working hard with Egypt, with Jordan, with the international community, to not allow Israel either to annex certain parts or to force transfer our people out of Gaza. But this is the Israeli plan. Of course,they always say that they want to eradicate Hamas.I don't think that's something that is possible anyhow.

Sidhant Sibal: Now coming to the India bit.Where do you see India, andIndia giving a solution to the ongoing conflict?India has a good relationship with Palestine, and also with Israel. So do you foresee Indiaplaying an important role in pacifying the ongoing conflict?

Mohammad Shtayyeh: For sure.I knowthat Indian leadership, Prime Minister Modi and others and the Minister of Foreign Affairs have been fully engaged. I have made a phone call to the Indian leadership asking them to intervenein certain things that Israel is doing against our people. And I think Indian engagement is very important. You said India does enjoy a good relationship with us and with the Israelis, and I think India can do a lot. Now Europe is working with certain Arab countries, mainly Saudi Arabia, the US, Jordan, Egypt,Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. And we are working together to come up with a plan based on an international conference and I think India, China, Russia, the Europeans, the Arabs, the United States and other countries should be in that international conference. Because my dear friend, look, we spent 30 years of negotiation with the Israelis and Israel continued to build settlements and fully and totally erode every possibility of a Palestinian state.

So now, we cannot go back to a negotiation that has been ongoing for 30 years. Now you need a different paradigm. We need a serious paradigm shift from talks with Israelis because our relationship with Israel is an asymmetrical relationship, Israel is too strong, fully supported by Washington. WhilePalestine, is weak, and we are under occupation. I mean, we're strong with our determination, our will with our dignity. That's a different story. But by military means, there is no balance of power. So, we need to remedy this asymmetrical relationship by the intervention of a third party, and we did call for an international conference.

That should take place soon for this conference to call upon Israel to end its occupation of the Palestinian Territories. And if Israel does not end its occupation of Palestinian territory, Israel should be put under sanctions. And I think India and other players are very important in this endeavour and this direction. So, India is welcometo play a constructive role. And we know that India has been of good support to Palestine, whether through certain infrastructure projects or politically or through other means.But most important is that the people of India have always been in full support of Palestine and Palestine is very dear to the hearts of Indian people. So reflecting the will of the people and the will of the readership, India can do a lot.

Sidhant Sibal: Special message to the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, if you can talk about that?I mean, the Prime Minister of India has had impressive conversations with his counterparts globally. He has good friendship with the Israeli prime minister as well. So, any specific message you would like to give to the Indian prime minister?

Mohammad Shtayyeh: You know, we don't send messages to prime ministers through the media. We send messages through diplomatic channels usually, and we communicate on phones and so on and so forth. But my message to all of India and the prime minister isthat we need you and this is the moment where people have been standing solid for peace and justice. And I know India has been fighting for peace and justice all through history.

And I'm sure for our people as well, it's the right moment.Yes, you know, India does recognise Palestine as a state, but Indian influence in the international political arena is very important. And I want the voice of India to be solid, in line with our voice for peace and justice, for Palestine for peace and justice for all.

And also,Israel should be held accountable for all that they have been doing. And I think it will be very important if the Indian leadershipadvises the Israelis to tell them to listen.Guys, where are you heading? Israel has tried so many means and ways and it has proven to be a failure. Israel has been employing security measures.

Security does not bring peace. It is the peace that brings security to Israel and not vice versa. And I think the Indian approach to these things is very important whether through the Non-Aligned Movement, through bilateral relations or through the unique relationship between India and the United States.Americans are now sayinggood words. All that'sneeded is, as I said, to move from statements to practical implementation of two states. AndI think our relationship is very unique with Indian people with their leadership. I know you haveelections in May, and we are very aware of these realities.

And obviously, states are driven by their national interests. We understand that but weand India have been standing solid for peace and justice, on equal footing, on footing for the dignity of our people, and also to see and fight together for peace not only for Palestine, but in every single region of the world where conflict needsto be eliminated,and that we push for the sustainable development and we push for the current issues where Palestine can contribute.

Palestineis the holy land for Christians,Muslims, for everybody, and this holy land should be a land of peace, not fighting.And peace can only be achieved by ending the Israeli occupationof the Palestinian territory since 1967. Rest assured that the Indian leadership is very capable of making a difference when it comes to pushing for peace and justice.

Sidhant Sibal: So you initially mentioned that you reached out to the Indian side, you have held conversations.Any specific proposal you have given to the Indian side? Additionally, we have seen India sending humanitarian aid to Gaza to the people of Gaza. If you could talk about that...

Mohammad Shtayyeh: Yes, of course. Look, I mean, there is now an international effort to relieve Gaza. The situation, as I said, iscatastrophic. I was notified by your representative here, the ambassador, the lady ambassador of India to Palestine, Renu Yadav, a very capable lady who has briefed us daily on theIndian position, on Indian assistance to Palestine, to Gaza.

Also, there area number of infrastructure projects funded by India, including a $30 million hospital which is something of a landmark in Palestine.It will be with an Indian flag in the heart of the Palestinian territory. So, there are manyareas where, you know, India, as I said, can make a difference. We are communicating with the leadership through the diplomatic channels on these issues, but aid has been welcomed. And aid has been received from India to Palestine and Gaza.

Sidhant Sibal: Hamas leader Khaled Mashal stated that Hamas has nothing to do with a two-state solution? Do you look forward to a two-state solution?

Mohammad Shtayyeh: Well, I think Mashal has been very clear. He said that Hamas is ready to go along with the Palestinian, different Palestinian political factions, you know.Palestine is a pluralistic society. We have 15 Palestinian political groups and political parties and political organisations, and Hamas is one of them. And therefore, of course, we want to have a unified political position. We should all call for one thing, a two-state solution.And I think in our communication before this war with Hamas, ithas accepted that idea of a two-state solution. Of course, they are saying that we don't want to recognise Israel.

That's a different story because now Israel does not recognise Palestine. Recognition should be mutual and not just one party recognising the other. It's not only up to Hamas, Fatah etc.It's just Palestinian people collectively, and we are now engaging. And before October 7, we were engaging with Hamas to accommodate themin the political arenaso that we could agree on tools of struggle. We have learnt from the Indian experience, the salt march, the resistance. These things are important when you don't have a balance of power.Palestine never gave up, and will not give up and will continue to fight through popular resistance, through peaceful means, through UN org, through international courts.We will not surrender. If tomorrow, Israel ends its occupation, all Palestinians will accept that.The problem is that it is ongoing, and Israel is destroying the two-state solution.

Sidhant Sibal: If you can talk about India's capacity-building programmes in Palestine...

Mohammad Shtayyeh: India has been helping us here besides humanitarian aid to Gaza. There are a number of initiatives that have been taken by the Indian government, Prime Minister Modi and his government. It has to do with support for the Palestinian economy,education, women's empowerment and support for the medical and health sectorsthrough the construction of a hospital,a $30 million project. Also through some bilateral visits between us and Indian officials and so on.

So India is an important player. Usually, India is not a donor country, but for Palestine,India has actually contributed in this direction and that is also part of building the state from bottom to top. We have been doing that for the last 30 years. I think the time has come whenwe continueto build capacity from bottom to top in preparation for the manifestation of a Palestinian state on the ground. Now, it is time whenwe do what I call reverse engineering.

We have to put the ceiling first and then come to the ground which means that we need the international community, mainly the United States and Europe to recognise Palestine as a state and then we can work together on the foundations that are already there. My dear friend, I should mention to you that Palestine has a very rich history.The municipality of Hebron, or the municipality of Nablus is hundreds ofyears older than the state of Israel and the State of Israel was only created in 1948. The institutions in Palestine go back to the Ottoman Period.That's, you know, hundreds of years ago.

The issue for us is that we need to see an end to this occupation.The capacity is there, and the Palestinians are very capable. We have the highest number of university graduates in the region. Palestinians are very talented and highly educated. You see them with successful stories like Indians all over the world and the Gulf countries.Indians and Palestinians have contributed a lot to the success stories, in different Arab countries and the region and so on. So thecapacity is there, and any contribution to that is more than welcome.